As a goth I was slightly shocked at many of the things I read on this page. Goth listen to Gothic rock more than heavy metal and Marilyn Manson is not considered goth by many goths but more of a huge goth poser. Many goths are also not into body mutilation although tattoos and piercings are common. Cutting is an emo thing and emo is a totally different thing from goth. Not all goth have dark and dreary personality. Even before I became part of the goth sub-culture I found goths to be very nice people. Goths can be and often are happy. I find it strange that wearing make-up falls into the poser goth as almost all goths wear dark make-up. I would define a poser goth as someone who is usually in high school, listens to Marilyn Manson (as opposed to real goth bands), and looks like a hot topic clone. These posers often grow out of their goth stage.